Debts and bankruptcy in Tunisia?

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#21
Even a nice card would've been better than half a set of coasters, what was he thinking? :eek:
F***** knows! He must have been having a brain fart, because there was a time when he gave very thoughtful gifts.
 

Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#22
Ha ha yes! He thought 3 coasters was an acceptable birthday gift for his fiance of 3 years. That's why we were rowing in the first place and then this debt of his came out!
One coaster for each year together - no wonder you were rowing. Xxx
 

Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#23
Recycle the coasters - useful gift for new house!!!
 

Trulymadlydeeply

Well-Known Member
#24
If it were me I would definitely be wanting to see the house just to see if it does exist! A house is usually a necessity to marry a Tunisian woman?! Sooo many questions and answers must be swimming around in your head LA x
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#25
Recycle the coasters - useful gift for new house!!!
Useful gift for the woman looking after my imaginary cat too! ;)

So many questions! He's now suggesting taking me to his home village. Sounds like a nice idea, but when he suggests I take enough money in cash to cover our 10-day trip, I wonder what he has planned! :eek:
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#26
A house is usually a necessity to marry a Tunisian woman?!
He's talking about selling it to pay off his debt, so I don't think he's thinking of it for that.

The main problem at the moment is we're going round in circles. He wants me to stay another 10 days, rather than head back to the UK, and he wants me to go to his home village. That's all fine, but then he pipes up with wanting £400! I've said no (in fact I told him to stick it where the sun doesn't shine). But as a result I am torn between going to see this house of his, and heading home where I can distance myself further from this mess and wait to see whether he can find a way out of his problems on his own.

Oh wait. No contest.
 

Trulymadlydeeply

Well-Known Member
#27
What's the £400 for? How far away from where you are staying is the house? Can you not go tomorrow for example? Rightly so with regards to the money. I take it you need to get a flight, Essem has a number for the Thomsons office in Sousse.
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#28
What's the £400 for? How far away from where you are staying is the house? Can you not go tomorrow for example? Rightly so with regards to the money. I take it you need to get a flight, Essem has a number for the Thomsons office in Sousse.
The £400 is for his aunt, whom he owes £2,000. I've said no a dozen times, but he doesn't hear it. In his view all problems can be solved with money, and even better if it is my money! I feel like if I were to go see the house, it would be like selling timeshares - you know where you get promised a free holiday if you agree to sit through a teeny-weeny presentation and the whole trip turns into a hard sell? ;)

The house is in Kairouan, and I'm currently in Sousse. I presume we would drive, but it is still too far to go when I'm feeling dicey about the whole relationship. He's working for the next week, which I also think is why he wants me to stay another 10 days. His contract ends at the end of next week and wouldn't it be nice and tidy for him to get a ride home with his European fiance to show off around the village!

Yes I do need to get a flight, and if Essem has the number for an office in Sousse that would be fantastic.
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#29
3 years together and he hasn't mentioned something so important as this until now is beyond strange. What else hasn't he mentioned?

I can only imagine the stress and strain you are going through. Emotional roller coaster never mind drinks coaster!

So if the house is just being built and he can't pay, can't he sell what he's built to pay the debtors off and forget about building?

If it's a new house for the family, the obviously are living in an old one at the moment - why do they need a new one?

Sorry Essem I missed this post.

I did press him on why he hadn't mentioned it before. He said that he expected to be able to pay it off easily when he got to France. He also hadn't appreciated that it was any of my business, since it was for his family and not for us. I explained to him that it would affect us because it would take over a year to pay the money back, and that would be over a year that we had to live together on less. He said he hadn't considered that. He also hadn't considered that it would take a further 2 years at least to pay for the remaining building work it would need either.

I asked him what else he is hiding and he said he isn't hiding anything else. Clearly not a guarantee but the best I'll get without a polygraph :p

He's agreed to sell the house. At least when we started our 3-hour conversation this evening that is what he said. God only knows what he has decided now. He has a very irritating tendency to go round and round in circles. I've heard this is an Arabic thing?! Just when you think you have reached an agreement they start round 2? :banghead: :rolleyes:

I think they're renting currently, so presumably they would be more secure if they owned. I'll check that with him. It may simply have been bravado that he could afford to build a house now, since he was about to go to France and start earning European money.
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#30
I've decided to go back to the UK so I can regroup. Essem - do you have any info that may be useful for arranging flights etc? I want to leave as quickly as possible. This is his first serious relationship and he thinks we can talk it through. I've had long, lingering breakups before and it is best for everyone concerned to get as much distance as possible, as quickly as possible, and to go from there.
 

Kris

Administrator
Staff member
#31
Ah if there is no signed documentation then they have no powers to get it back.

They dont have bankruptcy like in the UK you dont get discharged you get

2,500 euros ... good luck with that one unless he is a doctor or something like that and even if he does get it don't forget the taxes.
If it were me I would definitely be wanting to see the house just to see if it does exist! A house is usually a necessity to marry a Tunisian woman?! Sooo many questions and answers must be swimming around in your head LA x

The new house is like savings for most Tunisian guys.

Near impossible to get building land for them at current prices.

I have seen some situations where they would rather go to jail than hand lands over if thats all they have.

Tunisia has no inheritance tax I think from father to son so many houses are in dads name until he dies.

Its sometimes apparent that in some relationships your the silver bullet/meal ticket etc even if they love you.

With a cold heart a house built step by step at home is a good hedge when marrying a foreign woman and many do go back and then marry a 18 year old cousin after years of marriage..... in total contrast to their previous relationship.
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#32
They dont have bankruptcy like in the UK you dont get discharged you get
Kris - what do you get if you're bankrupt in Tunisia?

He has agreed to sell the house, so it's good to know that land is in demand over there. It means he'll get a better price and is more likely to recoup his costs and be able to pay the people he owes. I realise a handshake agreement isn't worth the paper it is written on, but I think he'd want to pay back if he can because it is their home village and all of his family lives there. His standing in the community would be very much diminished if he reneged on the deal, and his family still has to live there, even if he moves away.

Yes, it is very apparent to me that I am the silver bullet. Based on the past 3 years he does love me very much, but it is very much about what I can do for him. It's like a child - in some ways their love is unconditional, and in other ways it is very much dependent on their needs being met! Even last night when he had the chance to talk me into staying he could not get past asking for £400. I asked him what if I gave him £400 and then left him forever and he had to think about it! Eventually he said he'd be upset, but there was reaction time.

I'm losing a lot of money by curtailing this trip. The rent is already paid for 2 months, and my flights are non-refundable. I'll be down close to £2000 by the end. I'm self-employed and that's close to 2 month's earnings. I told him this and he still asked me for the £400!! Yet I honestly think it didn't occur to him that this was further damaging his chances of us staying together.

The irony is that we were planning to go to France in a couple of months, and once there he could earn enough money to consider a project like this further down the line. In the future, once we're settled and both earning, he could have found the money. He's ruined his chances of that because he can't see past the end of his nose. It's maddening! (Not to mention of course that he hid this from me for a year, so he's completely destroyed my trust, but let's not get into that.)
 

Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#33
Hi LA

Thomsons numbers in Sousse are: 73242252/73242244 (New office is not far from previous one above shop called Violetta)

Thos Cook is 73241692 (TTS office in Rue des Orangers, Khezama Est)
 

Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#34
He's talking about selling it to pay off his debt, so I don't think he's thinking of it for that.

The main problem at the moment is we're going round in circles. He wants me to stay another 10 days, rather than head back to the UK, and he wants me to go to his home village. That's all fine, but then he pipes up with wanting £400! I've said no (in fact I told him to stick it where the sun doesn't shine). But as a result I am torn between going to see this house of his, and heading home where I can distance myself further from this mess and wait to see whether he can find a way out of his problems on his own.

Oh wait. No contest.
Why on earth would he need £400 to go to Kairouan from Sousse? You could easily go, see what you have to see and come back on the same day!!

Sorry again LA, but IMO he's trying to squeeze as much money out of you as possible.
 

Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#35
Kris - what do you get if you're bankrupt in Tunisia?

He has agreed to sell the house, so it's good to know that land is in demand over there. It means he'll get a better price and is more likely to recoup his costs and be able to pay the people he owes. I realise a handshake agreement isn't worth the paper it is written on, but I think he'd want to pay back if he can because it is their home village and all of his family lives there. His standing in the community would be very much diminished if he reneged on the deal, and his family still has to live there, even if he moves away.

Without paperwork it'll be very easy to ask a couple of 'friends' to say they have given him money to build - at the end of the day, they'd all get a bit of 'commission' from that. Have you asked him outright if he wants you to fund the building of this house? Have you seen any paperwork that states he owns the house/land? Of course, he'd want to pay it back, especially if someone else was giving him the money to pay it off. What sort of standing does he have already in the community?

Yes, it is very apparent to me that I am the silver bullet. Based on the past 3 years he does love me very much,but it is very much about what I can do for him. It's like a child - in some ways their love is unconditional, and in other ways it is very much dependent on their needs being met! Even last night when he had the chance to talk me into staying he could not get past asking for £400. I asked him what if I gave him £400 and then left him forever and he had to think about it! Eventually he said he'd be upset, but there was reaction time.

Speaks volumes!

I'm losing a lot of money by curtailing this trip. The rent is already paid for 2 months, and my flights are non-refundable. I'll be down close to £2000 by the end. I'm self-employed and that's close to 2 month's earnings. I told him this and he still asked me for the £400!! Yet I honestly think it didn't occur to him that this was further damaging his chances of us staying together.

At least if you go back you could perhaps pick up some work to try to make up the shortfall. Peace of mind is worth so much more than staying and being constantly stressed. He's obviously only thinking of himself and to hell with you or your life and work. It's looking clear that your money is more important to him than you are - sorry!


The irony is that we were planning to go to France in a couple of months, and once there he could earn enough money to consider a project like this further down the line. In the future, once we're settled and both earning, he could have found the money. He's ruined his chances of that because he can't see past the end of his nose. It's maddening! (Not to mention of course that he hid this from me for a year, so he's completely destroyed my trust, but let's not get into that.)
Can he travel to France easily?

As for the trust issue, difficult to get back, if ever or unless you deliude yourself, once its gone. XX
 

Kris

Administrator
Staff member
#36
Kris - what do you get if you're bankrupt in Tunisia?

He has agreed to sell the house, so it's good to know that land is in demand over there. It means he'll get a better price and is more likely to recoup his costs and be able to pay the people he owes. I realise a handshake agreement isn't worth the paper it is written on, but I think he'd want to pay back if he can because it is their home village and all of his family lives there. His standing in the community would be very much diminished if he reneged on the deal, and his family still has to live there, even if he moves away.

Yes, it is very apparent to me that I am the silver bullet. Based on the past 3 years he does love me very much, but it is very much about what I can do for him. It's like a child - in some ways their love is unconditional, and in other ways it is very much dependent on their needs being met! Even last night when he had the chance to talk me into staying he could not get past asking for £400. I asked him what if I gave him £400 and then left him forever and he had to think about it! Eventually he said he'd be upset, but there was reaction time.

I'm losing a lot of money by curtailing this trip. The rent is already paid for 2 months, and my flights are non-refundable. I'll be down close to £2000 by the end. I'm self-employed and that's close to 2 month's earnings. I told him this and he still asked me for the £400!! Yet I honestly think it didn't occur to him that this was further damaging his chances of us staying together.

The irony is that we were planning to go to France in a couple of months, and once there he could earn enough money to consider a project like this further down the line. In the future, once we're settled and both earning, he could have found the money. He's ruined his chances of that because he can't see past the end of his nose. It's maddening! (Not to mention of course that he hid this from me for a year, so he's completely destroyed my trust, but let's not get into that.)
If there is no signed contract he wont go to prison unless proven which takes a lot to do as what is stopping the other party making it up? Money lenders ask for huge mark ups 100% a year or so etc is not unheard of.

Many Tunisians run away to the EU for this point alone if you run away before the problems/litigation you can get out. If not I think they mark your file and you cannot leave the country.

In all honesty you have to be tough and if i where you call it a day. Once you go down this route believe me it wont stop the demands for cash will just keep coming.

I did not enjoy my last trip to Tunisia to be honest as everyone needed money and although I feel for them I could spend all my money and be 100% sure that the support would not be reciprocated if I was the one in need.

This is the feeling you don\t get much in the UK the feeling of being a means to an end rather than the end in itself. Life is hard for many in Tunisia and the mentality is different ergo much more cold and matter of fact the romantic words hide the calculations behind the eyes.

Be careful as people can get nasty when things don't work out and you don't want to be in the wrong place if that happens. You loose a fiancee which is sad but he looses a fiancee, hope of money, visa and a new life.
 

Kris

Administrator
Staff member
#37
Why on earth would he need £400 to go to Kairouan from Sousse? You could easily go, see what you have to see and come back on the same day!!

Sorry again LA, but IMO he's trying to squeeze as much money out of you as possible.
Wants some spending money to impress certain people?
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#38
Hi LA

Thomsons numbers in Sousse are: 73242252/73242244 (New office is not far from previous one above shop called Violetta)

Thos Cook is 73241692 (TTS office in Rue des Orangers, Khezama Est)
Thank you Essem. I'm flying back with Thomson on Wednesday.
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#39
Why on earth would he need £400 to go to Kairouan from Sousse?
He's asking for £400 to give to his aunt as a downpayment on his debt of £2,000 to her. I've explained that he's not getting it from me.

I can bat the requests for money back to him no problem - I'm used to hearing "tu peut m'aider?". What is frustrating me is that his money issues colour everything he thinks and does. He can't even think about "us" or even me, while he has money issues on his mind. In his view, if I want him in a position where he can think about us, I have to help him out of his debt crisis first. Then he'll be happy and can think about love.

More importantly for this thread, he doesn't really see anything else as a solution apart from money. Money is the first and best solution to EVERYTHING as far as he's concerned. I've suggested he sell the house, which the last time we discussed it he intends to do. What he's stuck on is that he says he can't go back to his village without a downpayment for his aunt. And he can't sell the house until he goes back. Self-imposed Catch 22.

In my view if his aunt was wealthy enough to lend him £2,000 she's got the means to hang on for a couple of months to get her money back. Nobody lends money on a property venture if they need it back quickly! It's a long term investment, in the UK and presumably also over here.
 

lovesarrow

Well-Known Member
#40
If there is no signed contract he wont go to prison unless proven which takes a lot to do as what is stopping the other party making it up? Money lenders ask for huge mark ups 100% a year or so etc is not unheard of.

Many Tunisians run away to the EU for this point alone if you run away before the problems/litigation you can get out. If not I think they mark your file and you cannot leave the country.

In all honesty you have to be tough and if i where you call it a day. Once you go down this route believe me it wont stop the demands for cash will just keep coming.

I did not enjoy my last trip to Tunisia to be honest as everyone needed money and although I feel for them I could spend all my money and be 100% sure that the support would not be reciprocated if I was the one in need.

This is the feeling you don\t get much in the UK the feeling of being a means to an end rather than the end in itself. Life is hard for many in Tunisia and the mentality is different ergo much more cold and matter of fact the romantic words hide the calculations behind the eyes.

Be careful as people can get nasty when things don't work out and you don't want to be in the wrong place if that happens. You loose a fiancee which is sad but he looses a fiancee, hope of money, visa and a new life.
Well it is good to know that he won't go to prison, and if he's careful he can avoid getting a mark on his file. These were both things I was scared of.

Which route are we talking about? I have no intention of helping him financially with his debt. In my view his taking on this debt has ruined our chance of a future together.

The lack of reciprocation is what upsets me too, Kris. I feel for Tunisians too, but I know that if I opened my wallet it would soon be empty and the demands for more money would just keep coming. It hurts me when he says I don't help him, especially since I do help him as much as I can in many ways including small amounts of money occasionally. But he's not keeping a tally of the times when I do help him, only the times I don't.

I agree that there is often a feeling that you're a means to an end. I also get that it can be completely "innocent" and sit quite happily alongside feelings of genuine affection. It can be borne out of desperation as much as out of greed.

Thanks for the warning about possible nastiness. I understand that he stands to lose a lot more than I do, and he may take greater risks than I would be willing to take to hang onto it. I'm seeing him once more - possibly - tonight in PEK where there are lots of tourists and taxis. After that, if he wants to meet me halfway, he can sell the house, pay off his debts and meet me in France.
 
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