Earning the right to stay: A new points test for citizenship

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MellieC

Well-Known Member
#21
oki doki I willl wait till you post everything hun x x
dont be holding your breath lol

I will email you hun, as your case is different ~ you come under EU law every time, the UK immigration law will not hit you and Niez much if at all.

Niez has shown here his written english, so i am guessing he can speak it to?
my hubbys written english has its moments, he writes how he would say it ~ but i can read it lol but his spoken english is good, albeit with some black country slang lol
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#22
Check out the last paragraph if YOU are getting married!

English for spouses new to the UK
We will set a medium term goal of introducing a pre-entry English test for marriage visa applicants, linked to benchmarks about the availability of English tuition worldwide. In the short term, we will require those seeking spouse visas to enter into an agreement to learn English as part of the visa application process and, once they have arrived in the UK, to show that they have fulfilled this commitment. We will set out our timetable in a
statement of intent in the Autumn.

Increasing the age at which someone can sponsor or be sponsored as a spouse from 18 to 21
We will increase the age at which someone can sponsor or be sponsored as a spouse from 18 to 21.
We will introduce changes to the Immigration Rules to bring this into effect by December 2008.

Cancelling leave for those who breach our rules
We will seek to revoke indefinite leave to remain rendering the individual liable to expulsion where there has been abuse of the marriage route. We will set out our approach in a Statement of Intent in the Autumn. If appropriate, we will amend the law in the
forthcoming Immigration and Citizenship Bill.
We will improve our current system for investigating allegations for abuse of the marriage route by December 2008.
We will ensure information and advice is available to sponsors, including awareness of the Forced Marriage Unit by December 2008.
We will review the evidence required for an application for indefinite leave to remain on the basis of marriage by September 2008.

A person intending to sponsor a partner from overseas must declare this intention before they leave the UK
We will introduce a requirement for British citizens and permanent residents who are seeking to sponsor a spouse to come to the UK to first declare their intention before leaving the UK and marrying abroad. We will screen these registrations and require a compulsory interview where we deem appropriate.
We will set out our timetable for introducing this requirement in a statement of intent in the Autumn.
 

KIZZEY

Active Member
#23
twice huh? first on language, and then on political history LOL

they are looking at people totally "renouncing" their own culture ~

Your'e right there Mel and for a big big % its not going to happen and it will put untold pressure on already fragile relationships. I feel so lucky though that Sad as really settled into the English life eg he loves all the food from beans on toast to Sunday lunch and now theres no prayers, no hal hal not even doing ramadan:eek: Have spoke to him and told him I hope he don't regret it later and not to blame me its his choice. He just says that his life is here now with an English wife and it don't feel right anymore. Seems focused on what he wants from life here, no big plans, just work, be comfortable and be with the woman he loves (his words). Love conquers all they say but the fight leaves me bone weary some days lol:D
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#24
some of the last post are aimed at the 18 t 21's, but we saw last week how the canadian was caught out, irrespective of her overstaying!

but i think they will push it above the over 21's, any excuse to have an interview, slow the process down ~ cause irritations!

and see what they can pick at to STOP settlement visa's!
 
N

nela

Guest
#25
dont be holding your breath lol

I will email you hun, as your case is different ~ you come under EU law every time, the UK immigration law will not hit you and Niez much if at all.

Niez has shown here his written english, so i am guessing he can speak it to?
my hubbys written english has its moments, he writes how he would say it ~ but i can read it lol but his spoken english is good, albeit with some black country slang lol
Mel since Niez started talking to me his english is becoming even more better than mine...i can tel you sometimes writing one post here take me years!!! and thats with dictionary. yeah his written english is good, he can communicate but he still doesnt seem to realise that woman is she, man is he and for everything else is it.
So for example when you say about house you say about it not she!!!!!!!
Sorry baby but you will get there eventualy

Ta Mel
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#26
twice huh? first on language, and then on political history LOL

they are looking at people totally "renouncing" their own culture ~

Your'e right there Mel and for a big big % its not going to happen and it will put untold pressure on already fragile relationships. I feel so lucky though that Sad as really settled into the English life eg he loves all the food from beans on toast to Sunday lunch and now theres no prayers, no hal hal not even doing ramadan:eek: Have spoke to him and told him I hope he don't regret it later and not to blame me its his choice. He just says that his life is here now with an English wife and it don't feel right anymore. Seems focused on what he wants from life here, no big plans, just work, be comfortable and be with the woman he loves (his words). Love conquers all they say but the fight leaves me bone weary some days lol:D
Hi hun, Faysal has the same attitude, wants to change his name to something "english" LOL, so "fred" will not automatically be assumed to be foreign LOL dozy that he is ~ we still have the surname LOL he cracks me up really he does!

Fred has no major plans, just work, be comfortable and happy with me, and to be honest he's not bothered where, its easier for ME if we are in the UK, but he totally doesn't care!

I think the british history issue will be ahrd for a lot of people ~ and the working in the community, people will start off with for example +5 points, and have points added or taken away ~ brownie points!!
there will then be a "points" Score and anyone who is below it WILL be DEPORTED!

i hope they get that sorted out??? it takes an age, i think they are looking to deport asap!!
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#27
Mel since Niez started talking to me his english is becoming even more better than mine...i can tel you sometimes writing one post here take me years!!! and thats with dictionary. yeah his written english is good, he can communicate but he still doesnt seem to realise that woman is she, man is he and for everything else is it.
So for example when you say about house you say about it not she!!!!!!!
Sorry baby but you will get there eventualy

Ta Mel
that goes back to the french language huh? we discussed this in another thread ~ inanimate objects, to me are inanimate objects, ie: a TABLE is a table its not "feminine" or "masculine" its just a table, ~ an inanimate object!

I could never get my head around the feminine and masculine issues in french language and therefore am ablsoutely Rubbish at it and any other language!

I live in the edge of the "black country" I have enough trouble with the "broad accents" around me let alone foreign languages LOL

but then again, men usually refer to cars/boats ~ "boys toys" as SHE lol because she is a LOVE LOL, My car, truck and caravan all have female names, but they are from their registration plates, so i can remember them LOL:p
 

janette b

Well-Known Member
#28
A person intending to sponsor a partner from overseas must declare this intention before they leave the UK
We will introduce a requirement for British citizens and permanent residents who are seeking to sponsor a spouse to come to the UK to first declare their intention before leaving the UK and marrying abroad. We will screen these registrations and require a compulsory interview where we deem appropriate.
We will set out our timetable for introducing this requirement in a statement of intent in the Autumn

I think this may push a few more people into a decision a bit quicker....can you imagine being interviewed before you get married ha ha .. reminds me when i went for my coni, the lady said i must make you aware that muslims can have more than 1 wife...i said not without a broken neck he cant... she laughed ,i was serious....
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#29
A person intending to sponsor a partner from overseas must declare this intention before they leave the UK
We will introduce a requirement for British citizens and permanent residents who are seeking to sponsor a spouse to come to the UK to first declare their intention before leaving the UK and marrying abroad. We will screen these registrations and require a compulsory interview where we deem appropriate.
We will set out our timetable for introducing this requirement in a statement of intent in the Autumn

I think this may push a few more people into a decision a bit quicker....can you imagine being interviewed before you get married ha ha .. reminds me when i went for my coni, the lady said i must make you aware that muslims can have more than 1 wife...i said not without a broken neck he cant... she laughed ,i was serious....
LOL but don't that just show how much SHE DIDN'T KNOW?
a tourist asked me and fred that once in a cafe, he laughed, and said do you think i would still be breathing, have you seen her when shes angry!!


this is the concern ~ that people who maybe were planning things for the "future" are going to make the future NOW, and that may not be the best thing for them in the long term!!

and that people will get caught out in the regulations, that little gen was in amongst the 18 to 21 ruling, but it does not apply SOLEY to them its applies "blanket" style!

we all know that the granting of visa's partially depends on the mood of the ECO, half the people won't even get that far soon!

and what are the criteria going to be for "allowing" a person to "sponsor" after their marriage?
if they own thier home? have £xxx in a savings account? length of time known the person? or amount of time SPENT with the person? how long you have been in your job? a letter from your employer guaranteeing work for 2 years? etc etc!!
then if you pass that, hubby also has to pass the Englsih test part 1, THEN you get the ECO, THEN if after all that a visa is granted you get to do more tests in the UK on british and political history!!
 

Soltef

New Member
#30
LOL but don't that just show how much SHE DIDN'T KNOW?
a tourist asked me and fred that once in a cafe, he laughed, and said do you think i would still be breathing, have you seen her when shes angry!!


this is the concern ~ that people who maybe were planning things for the "future" are going to make the future NOW, and that may not be the best thing for them in the long term!!

and that people will get caught out in the regulations, that little gen was in amongst the 18 to 21 ruling, but it does not apply SOLEY to them its applies "blanket" style!

we all know that the granting of visa's partially depends on the mood of the ECO, half the people won't even get that far soon!

and what are the criteria going to be for "allowing" a person to "sponsor" after their marriage?
if they own thier home? have £xxx in a savings account? length of time known the person? or amount of time SPENT with the person? how long you have been in your job? a letter from your employer guaranteeing work for 2 years? etc etc!!
then if you pass that, hubby also has to pass the Englsih test part 1, THEN you get the ECO, THEN if after all that a visa is granted you get to do more tests in the UK on british and political history!!
Maybe not such a bad idea,in the long term, even though it does seem a bit 'Big Brotherish'!Might save a lot of wasted resources down the line-for the regulators and those thinking of marriage.

There's a programme on Sky HD tomorrow at 9pm about the UK Border Agency...
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#31
Maybe not such a bad idea,in the long term, even though it does seem a bit 'Big Brotherish'!Might save a lot of wasted resources down the line-for the regulators and those thinking of marriage.

There's a programme on Sky HD tomorrow at 9pm about the UK Border Agency...
I catch it when i can, as they do LOL

they do a very difficult job, and illegal immigration, overstayers and general trouble makers need to be found and deported! the problem is finding them half the time, and the govt has targets ~ and every govt agenvy has to meet their targets ~ so who can they deport? or prevent coming in the first place to "stem" immigration? not the illegals thats obvious, so its the legals, the girls on this forum and their guys and ll the girls and guys on forums for other countries ~ they suffer!!
 

MM4AS

Well-Known Member
#32
Hi hun, Faysal has the same attitude, wants to change his name to something "english" LOL, so "fred" will not automatically be assumed to be foreign LOL dozy that he is ~ we still have the surname LOL he cracks me up really he does!
!
the other day my fiance asked me if when he comes to the UK he's allowed to take my surname, instead of me taking his, he wants to sound more british! rofl

I have mixed feelings about some of these changes

I think a basic spoken english test is a good idea, so long as it is BASIC. I know a case of an asian woman who was almost killed by her husband after 5 years of being battered. He'd kept her isolated as a control mechanism, and not allowing her to learn english was a great advantage to him. She believed him when he told her she had no rights under british law, and she would lose the children if she left him. If she'd had to know some english before coming here he wouldn't have had the same level of control (obviously different nowadays as she'd only have had a 2 year spouse visa).

Also, being able to revoke the ILR if there has been an abuse of the marriage route to the visa might make some of the rats think twice. They could end up being deported anyway after all their efforts!

and some investigation prior to marriage could be good. If the UKBA told me my fiance had already tried to marry 4 previous european women it would set off alarm bells.

the problems with all the above is that they will invariably be used in bad ways. A good idea in principle can be an awful idea in practice

the government need to get to grips with the illegal immigration, not just stop the legal migrants!
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#33
there are still many older generation Asian women who do not speak english, and many that are in very much the same situation as you describe.

with the "basic english" Its a case of Stable door horse bolted, as there are so many that are here that cannot speak english or have a very very basic vocabulary. much like mine in Tunisia, the difference being that english was spoken around me in tunisia and i wasn't looking to work etc!

I have always been an advocate for being able to speak English for people coming here, because if you can't communicate how are you going to work? how are You going to provide for your family? aah, the govt will ( actually the taxpayer) and I totally DO NOT agree with that. those that have/were/are coming here but will not be working (housewives) still need to know some basic english.

they also need to know thier rights as a woman in british society, irrespective of their own often "retarded" culture, as for once, these new measures Look like the Brits are at last saying "when in Rome"!! but again the horse has been galloping the fields way too long on that one!

Revoking the ILR should have always have available, unfortunately, it hasn't been! and again its going to create a 2 teir society, those that have had ILR for a length of time that mean they are outside the scope of the "new" rules and those that are not!

revoking ILR should be to anyone, hell there are a few natural citizens we could do without!

I agree that some investigation would be good, but how would they (embassies) know that a guy had tried to marry before? they would only know that he had applied for a visa before at the most?

I am not sure the "rats" or even the genuines will think twice, they wo't understand a system that we are having trouble with lol

I agree that it will probably end up a complete mess and a lot of genuine cases will get caught up in it and it will not be nice for them at all, and IMHO ALL illegals, and failed asylum seekers need to be deported, but I know that for some its not always the threat, its the perceived threat which are 2 different things, but how we deal with it has to be looked at, not just making it harder for genuines which is what is going to happen.
 

mand3366

New Member
#34
Cancelling leave for those who breach our rules
We will seek to revoke indefinite leave to remain rendering the individual liable to expulsion where there has been abuse of the marriage route.


I must say that the point above is very good and has my full support in its implementation!

M x
 

Soltef

New Member
#35
the other day my fiance asked me if when he comes to the UK he's allowed to take my surname, instead of me taking his, he wants to sound more british! rofl

I have mixed feelings about some of these changes

I think a basic spoken english test is a good idea, so long as it is BASIC. I know a case of an asian woman who was almost killed by her husband after 5 years of being battered. He'd kept her isolated as a control mechanism, and not allowing her to learn english was a great advantage to him. She believed him when he told her she had no rights under british law, and she would lose the children if she left him. If she'd had to know some english before coming here he wouldn't have had the same level of control (obviously different nowadays as she'd only have had a 2 year spouse visa).

Also, being able to revoke the ILR if there has been an abuse of the marriage route to the visa might make some of the rats think twice. They could end up being deported anyway after all their efforts!

and some investigation prior to marriage could be good. If the UKBA told me my fiance had already tried to marry 4 previous european women it would set off alarm bells.

the problems with all the above is that they will invariably be used in bad ways. A good idea in principle can be an awful idea in practice

the government need to get to grips with the illegal immigration, not just stop the legal migrants!
There has been a recent story in the British press about two well-known British Asian MPs-the man divorced his first Asian wife,apparently without her realising it due to her limited English(!)-to remarry!The first wife still believes that she is still married and hopes her husband will return to her. I think learning English would have helped her greatly-sadly,her (controlling) children were all for the divorce apprently and dealt with her mail!
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#36
Cancelling leave for those who breach our rules
We will seek to revoke indefinite leave to remain rendering the individual liable to expulsion where there has been abuse of the marriage route.


I must say that the point above is very good and has my full support in its implementation!

M x
Its a corker huh? if it has no time limit!! cos its not so much the "visa" some are looking for but the ILR, and it would mean that it would remain conditional!!! I like that!!

But I doubt the ECJ will see it that way, so in that respect UK immigration (domestic) MUST remain seperate from EU Free Movement, of which the masterplan is to extend the Schengen to the EU, even Denmark will allow the Schegen now!

The UK and Ireland remain OUT of the Schengen Aquis, but are part of the sharing of police and criminal information, and cross border pursuits.
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#37
rendering the individual liable to expulsion

meant to say (haivng a dippy day today!) this is the interesting part of that statement, because it doesn't say It would be expulsion, because it would be unlikely if ~ there were children to the marriage, a business where expulsion would mean loss of jobs, and if the EU take over UK immigration (domestic) then the only grounds for expulsion would be those of refusal of entry ~ Public policy, health and security!

To rub salt in the wound, if an "illegal" marries, he cannot then automatically be expelled, and a marriage can NEVER be viewed as one of convenience in Visa applications, "as there are other measures for dealing with this" is the official response!!

so, much as I like the idea, I am not sure its ever going to get off the ground!

Mores the Pity!
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#38
There has been a recent story in the British press about two well-known British Asian MPs-the man divorced his first Asian wife,apparently without her realising it due to her limited English(!)-to remarry!The first wife still believes that she is still married and hopes her husband will return to her. I think learning English would have helped her greatly-sadly,her (controlling) children were all for the divorce apprently and dealt with her mail!
Which shows both my comment re: some basic english, AND knowing her RIGHTS as a woman, no longer in her "retarded" culture ~ as being valid!!

YES, the "controlling sons" great aren't they, and the daughters that go along with it as they would get a beating form dad and brothers!!

this also applies in cases of Rape and sexual abuse, and when the "village elders" (hello, THEY are NOT in the village now!) get involved its a nightmare, I couldn't force a woman to report to the police, instead of me anonymously, I could not do anything about the sorry son of a ***** THAT RAPED HER!!:mad: all I could do was take the report, and DNA evidence and Freeze it!! and monitor her!!!!!! But by god i made sure HE Knew I was Watching him, every move he made!!!

Village elders? Village Idiots More Like!!:mad:
 

mand3366

New Member
#39
:eek: Think I may have to apply to become an MP and get this bloody Immigration FIASCO sorted out once and for all.......ROFL!!!

My daughters boyfriends, Mother is of Pakistani origin and has lived here for 45 years and to this day doesn't speak a word of English........DISGUSTING! The problem is, especially with the Pakistani/Indian sub cultures it is very much a case of them forming their own communities and applying cultural `laws` to their families, even when in the UK.

This should be stamped out immediately. Every immigrant, regardless of entry conditions, should be subject to regular reviews and I agree with Mel, it is very much a case of keeping the Wives in the dark regarding their legal rights here in the UK.

Am going to start ranting so will shut up now!!!

M x :confused:
 

MellieC

Well-Known Member
#40
:eek: Think I may have to apply to become an MP and get this bloody Immigration FIASCO sorted out once and for all.......ROFL!!!

My daughters boyfriends, Mother is of Pakistani origin and has lived here for 45 years and to this day doesn't speak a word of English........DISGUSTING! The problem is, especially with the Pakistani/Indian sub cultures it is very much a case of them forming their own communities and applying cultural `laws` to their families, even when in the UK.

This should be stamped out immediately. Every immigrant, regardless of entry conditions, should be subject to regular reviews and I agree with Mel, it is very much a case of keeping the Wives in the dark regarding their legal rights here in the UK.

Am going to start ranting so will shut up now!!!

M x :confused:
It is the "applying of cultural laws" that cause the problems. South Asian, (or any other for that matter) cultural law have NO place if they are in any way contrary to British law, as the host nation its a lack of respect to the host, but has been allowed for to long to go too far!
 
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