Islam Conversion in Tunis

stm

Member
#61
I will reference each number

1. No buddy, I dont even know what Nessma tv is, I dont live in Tunisia. but I studied history. I am completely aware of the benefits of the ottoman empire to the islamic world, but also aware of how it was not a benefit to many of those who were non muslim. I look for historical facts, not ideological references to the way it *should* be done.

2. And here again, I cant support something where people follow an ideology blindly without question or challenge and progression. It might be appropriate for 1400 yrs ago, but certainly not appropriate for today. Death squad or not. Killing someone for wanting to leave a religion is barbaric

3. Well there's another reason not to support such an ideology, because protection comes with conditions like having to pay money to the islamic state for those who are not muslim. In the west we all supposed to pay our taxes, regardless of who you are, where you come from or who you worship. we all benefit from the protection of the state.

4. I dont need to look for weakness, there are weakness...and you are allowed to disagree and see it as the best thing ever invented. I already know that about you and your religion. However there's plenty of weakness as I have pointed out, but as I am a person of the west, we totally recognise that all ideologies have weaknesses and thats why they are constantly being improved as society changes and grows. The biggest flaw of the religion are the people that follow it. Without people to follow the religion it will be nothing. The blind faith of so many, including those who have blind faith in christianity and judaism and the rest of it. the human condition is not designed by the God that we all follow to be stale and non progressive. Change is part of who we are and the reason why muslims are so divided is because you cant all agree on your interpretation of it. Its perfectly fine to say that the Quran has never been changed, but that does not stop the fact that its interpreted by the scholars very differently. The biggest divide between shia and sunnis but theres smaller groups who also do things differently.

you can hold onto that pipe dream of our religion has never changed, but it has changed because without the people fulfilling the ideology, it would not exist. The people are the ones who change it because of how they interpret it.

As for your scientific miracles...well there is no point in discussing these, because we dont agree on the definition of miracles. Plus Science was not invented by Arabs and Muslims, people were experimenting and discovering stuff since the beginning of time. But if what you say about the miracles of science in the book convinces you that this is to be true and the best religion, then power to you. I think this is what holds muslims back from progressing in the world.
Its as if the Muslims such as your self all seem to think that well all these miracles happened and the best religion was created, so all we need to do in life is just pray and follow the religion, so all will be great for us. No determination to make something out of your lives and better yourself, help yourself first and then your neighbours so to speak. Lets just leave it up to God and what will be will be. Therefore, very little success in life.
1)YOU SAID:"Plus Science was not invented by Arabs and Muslims, people were experimenting and discovering stuff since the beginning of time"===> but Arabs have a significant contribution that we cant ignore.
2)YOU SAID:" But if what you say about the miracles of science in the book convinces you that this is to be true and the best religion, then power to you. I think this is what holds muslims back from progressing in the world. "==>Why it holds muslims from progressing? .In contrast , this is because they are far away from their relegion , they don't aplly it.They are muslims because they come from "islamic country" if it's really an islamic one.
3)YOU SAID:"Its as if the Muslims such as your self all seem to think that well all these miracles happened and the best religion was created, so all we need to do in life is just pray and follow the religion, so all will be great for us. No determination to make something out of your lives and better yourself, help yourself first and then your neighbours so to speak. Lets just leave it up to God and what will be will be. Therefore, very little success in life"==>i try to follow as possible as i can, and to i'm hepling my self and my neighbours :p without doubt.
4)YOU SAID "As for your scientific miracles...well there is no point in discussing these, because we dont agree on the definition of miracles"==>i didn't understand what u want to say exatly , but i still insist that scientific miracles of Quran was and still and will be a the important reason of the conversion of many non muslims to islam.
Finally: i beleive that what comes from God is perfect so islam is too.All thing in the earth guide us to this relegion , but we don't notice: Humain being , discovered origine of the earth (big bang) and then find it in he Quran, discovered that the death of "pharaon" was was because he submerged and than find it in the Quran who is written before more than 1400 years,In Quran the word "LAND" was repeted 13 times and the Word "sea" repeted 32 times a simple Calcul give is u the pourcentage of the land on the earth( 13/13+32) and of the sea , sthis is a simple ,small flash about miracles of courant, but there are maaaany(i don't even know from where i start) that i don't have time to mention them all.But i want to say , if some oone want really to know the rigth way to follow , every thong an earth will guide him to islam, mathematic, logique, naturel science , biology, nuclear science ... all thing you know
 

missmetal

Well-Known Member
#62
Hi STM

1. I did not ignore,but the problem is the contribution got a lot less because religion took priority. People in general don't know about the Arabian contributions because it was so long ago

2. I think I was referring to the fact that Muslims study religion as their main focus and not education that is relevant to competing in the world arena. That they just leave their destiny up to god and don't make it happen for themselves. Yes you can say that god has the plan and knows all the destinies,but god helps those that help they help themselves and all I see coming out of Tunisia is blame everyone else for the situation

3. Good for u except I disagree about your perception of islam, my opinion only.

4. We don't agree on what the definition of a miracle is. I don't see your calculation as a miracle but rather a coincidence or someone spent time calculating and making assumptions. Lucky guess.

I simply do not agree with anything you have said with regards to everything in nature leads right to islam.

I think it was clever that the 3 main religions came from the same region, they all learned from the previous ones mistakes.

Everything religious to me is spiritual, not literal. So I especially do not believe that all this is from god, literally. I definitely don't think he's sitting there drawing out plans for everyone. "So today this kid in Gaza will lose a leg, or this one will get crushed by a house that was blown up, or this kid will get shrapnel in their spine"

Religion served its purpose at the time to organize and control people. It's still controlling people today, but doing more damage than good,

Take care

1)YOU SAID:"Plus Science was not invented by Arabs and Muslims, people were experimenting and discovering stuff since the beginning of time"===> but Arabs have a significant contribution that we cant ignore.
2)YOU SAID:" But if what you say about the miracles of science in the book convinces you that this is to be true and the best religion, then power to you. I think this is what holds muslims back from progressing in the world. "==>Why it holds muslims from progressing? .In contrast , this is because they are far away from their relegion , they don't aplly it.They are muslims because they come from "islamic country" if it's really an islamic one.
3)YOU SAID:"Its as if the Muslims such as your self all seem to think that well all these miracles happened and the best religion was created, so all we need to do in life is just pray and follow the religion, so all will be great for us. No determination to make something out of your lives and better yourself, help yourself first and then your neighbours so to speak. Lets just leave it up to God and what will be will be. Therefore, very little success in life"==>i try to follow as possible as i can, and to i'm hepling my self and my neighbours :p without doubt.
4)YOU SAID "As for your scientific miracles...well there is no point in discussing these, because we dont agree on the definition of miracles"==>i didn't understand what u want to say exatly , but i still insist that scientific miracles of Quran was and still and will be a the important reason of the conversion of many non muslims to islam.
Finally: i beleive that what comes from God is perfect so islam is too.All thing in the earth guide us to this relegion , but we don't notice: Humain being , discovered origine of the earth (big bang) and then find it in he Quran, discovered that the death of "pharaon" was was because he submerged and than find it in the Quran who is written before more than 1400 years,In Quran the word "LAND" was repeted 13 times and the Word "sea" repeted 32 times a simple Calcul give is u the pourcentage of the land on the earth( 13/13+32) and of the sea , sthis is a simple ,small flash about miracles of courant, but there are maaaany(i don't even know from where i start) that i don't have time to mention them all.But i want to say , if some oone want really to know the rigth way to follow , every thong an earth will guide him to islam, mathematic, logique, naturel science , biology, nuclear science ... all thing you know
 
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Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#63
Totally agree MM, religion is for keeping people their place.
 

stm

Member
#64
Hi STM

1. I did not ignore,but the problem is the contribution got a lot less because religion took priority. People in general don't know about the Arabian contributions because it was so long ago

2. I think I was referring to the fact that Muslims study religion as their main focus and not education that is relevant to competing in the world arena. That they just leave their destiny up to god and don't make it happen for themselves. Yes you can say that god has the plan and knows all the destinies,but god helps those that help they help themselves and all I see coming out of Tunisia is blame everyone else for the situation

3. Good for u except I disagree about your perception of islam, my opinion only.

4. We don't agree on what the definition of a miracle is. I don't see your calculation as a miracle but rather a coincidence or someone spent time calculating and making assumptions. Lucky guess.

I simply do not agree with anything you have said with regards to everything in nature leads right to islam.

I think it was clever that the 3 main religions came from the same region, they all learned from the previous ones mistakes.

Everything religious to me is spiritual, not literal. So I especially do not believe that all this is from god, literally. I definitely don't think he's sitting there drawing out plans for everyone. "So today this kid in Gaza will lose a leg, or this one will get crushed by a house that was blown up, or this kid will get shrapnel in their spine"

Religion served its purpose at the time to organize and control people. It's still controlling people today, but doing more damage than good,

Take care
1)YOU SAID: "I think I was referring to the fact that Muslims study religion as their main focus and not education that is relevant to competing in the world arena. That they just leave their destiny up to god and don't make it happen for themselves. Yes you can say that god has the plan and knows all the destinies,but god helps those that help they help themselves and all I see coming out of Tunisia is blame everyone else for the situation"==>This is not true,at all, totally the opposit.In fact Islam demand to muslims to focus in all sciences as i gave u the verse in Quran but u didn't pay attention maybe.When u speak about Islam u would better refer to the content of Quran and Sunnah, i said that many times,.
2)YOU SAID: "We don't agree on what the definition of a miracle is. I don't see your calculation as a miracle but rather a coincidence or someone spent time calculating and making assumptions. Lucky guess."==>Whaaat a coincidence, , i know many other Mathematical miracles , if you want to start discussing them i'm ready for that.How could you tell them a coincidence although they are numerous ?ok ok forget about it just answer the following ones.(but i chanllenge u to give me one such "coincidence " in ANY other relegion---> another challenge for you :p )
**)Ok to make easy for you, i will not give new scientific miracles , i will just repeat the two ones that i put in my last comment( but you didn't give them attention , i don't know why really.)
A)Death of Pharaon(Verse 92 Chapter 10 "Yunus)":This is was a result of a long research done by the Doctor "Maurice Bucaille" , after his discover, he converted to islam and he wrote two well known books:"Quran And Modern Science" ,"The Bible the Qur'an and Science":Just check this page( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Bucaille ) and read the 2 first paragraphs(they are not long ) .Any thing to say?
B)BIG BANG: Ok , the "A" dosen't make a change? ok here we have a big long research done by thousands of scientists, researchers, ...ingeneers: it is done by the NASA :The "big bang" theory was formulated in the verses 41 Chapter 11(Fussilat)
and verse 30 chapter 21 (Al-Anbya) ..this small 6 minutes video could better explain to you:
(please take a small view :finger: )
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As you see i'm trying to explain with the simpliest way , and using small videos to make the it clear not too long and not boring (such a comment takes more than an 2 hour :arghh:).Maybe these scientific fields dosen't go with you, i have many others for you in all fields :happy:although i'm doing an academic project and i don't have enougth time for these long conversations.But i'm so happy to share this with u
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lamia

New Member
#65
it wasn't for me but for my husband ! and the mofti asked him few questions such as , how and why do you want to convert to islam , when was the first time you heard of islam ... then he asked him how many rakaa in salat al soub7 and well then he asked him to read fatiha and whether he prays or not , then he asked him to show him how he prays .....

that was it then he had to pronounce a'shahada , we got the conversion certificate right away !


hope this will help others know how its done ^^
 

missmetal

Well-Known Member
#66
1. I dont think you understand, im not going to point to Islamic references because its the examples of the religion that speak louder than what is written. Whilst you say, its not 'true', it is true because its what is practiced. Of course there are exceptions, and some people advance. But in some of the really stricter religious countries, whilst the women are allowed to study in some countries, their expectation of women is to be married and be a mother with no real future in what she studied. You are lucky to have grown up in Tunisia, but try growing up under the taliban where all you will do is continue to be a farmer and women are literally invisible.

So you can keep quoting the quran, but I will be speaking about what is actually practiced.

2. Once again, I dont care at all about your scientific religious discoveries that you believe are from god himself. Im sorry to disappoint you but I certainly do not see any correlation of the big bang theory and the quote in the quran. Honestly you are wasting your time on this discussion with me because I have had it many many many times before, and I simply do not agree or see that any of the stuff mentioned in the quran as scientific proof, rather just good observations and coincidences.

I also have no interest in trying to prove these things happened in any other religion. As stated before, these 3 religions came from the same region, all improving on the last ones failures. The bible is a combination of stories, lessons, poetry and history. We all know that stories told in those days are over exaggerated and therefore anything written in that period from Judaism, Christianity and Islam, in my opinion are stories. There's a lot that can be learnt, some good examples. But thats really it for me.

You're holding onto something that happened so long ago than rather advancing in modern day science. I cant explain everyones reason for why they convert to the religion. But people read into things whatever they want to read into it. And for the most part, people leaving your religion is simply because of the extreme practices that they are forced to live under and not everyone wants to practice the religion according to some interpretation of a religious scholar.

I think we have reached the end of the debate here. This thread is about conversion and we have gone off topic.

1)YOU SAID: "I think I was referring to the fact that Muslims study religion as their main focus and not education that is relevant to competing in the world arena. That they just leave their destiny up to god and don't make it happen for themselves. Yes you can say that god has the plan and knows all the destinies,but god helps those that help they help themselves and all I see coming out of Tunisia is blame everyone else for the situation"==>This is not true,at all, totally the opposit.In fact Islam demand to muslims to focus in all sciences as i gave u the verse in Quran but u didn't pay attention maybe.When u speak about Islam u would better refer to the content of Quran and Sunnah, i said that many times,.
2)YOU SAID: "We don't agree on what the definition of a miracle is. I don't see your calculation as a miracle but rather a coincidence or someone spent time calculating and making assumptions. Lucky guess."==>Whaaat a coincidence, , i know many other Mathematical miracles , if you want to start discussing them i'm ready for that.How could you tell them a coincidence although they are numerous ?ok ok forget about it just answer the following ones.(but i chanllenge u to give me one such "coincidence " in ANY other relegion---> another challenge for you :p )
**)Ok to make easy for you, i will not give new scientific miracles , i will just repeat the two ones that i put in my last comment( but you didn't give them attention , i don't know why really.)
A)Death of Pharaon(Verse 92 Chapter 10 "Yunus)":This is was a result of a long research done by the Doctor "Maurice Bucaille" , after his discover, he converted to islam and he wrote two well known books:"Quran And Modern Science" ,"The Bible the Qur'an and Science":Just check this page( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Bucaille ) and read the 2 first paragraphs(they are not long ) .Any thing to say?
B)BIG BANG: Ok , the "A" dosen't make a change? ok here we have a big long research done by thousands of scientists, researchers, ...ingeneers: it is done by the NASA :The "big bang" theory was formulated in the verses 41 Chapter 11(Fussilat)
and verse 30 chapter 21 (Al-Anbya) ..this small 6 minutes video could better explain to you:
(please take a small view :finger: )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you see i'm trying to explain with the simpliest way , and using small videos to make the it clear not too long and not boring (such a comment takes more than an 2 hour :arghh:).Maybe these scientific fields dosen't go with you, i have many others for you in all fields :happy:although i'm doing an academic project and i don't have enougth time for these long conversations.But i'm so happy to share this with u
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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Trulymadlydeeply

Well-Known Member
#67
it wasn't for me but for my husband ! and the mofti asked him few questions such as , how and why do you want to convert to islam , when was the first time you heard of islam ... then he asked him how many rakaa in salat al soub7 and well then he asked him to read fatiha and whether he prays or not , then he asked him to show him how he prays .....

that was it then he had to pronounce a'shahada , we got the conversion certificate right away !


hope this will help others know how its done ^^
I've forgotten lamia is this just so that you can get married?
 

stm

Member
#68
1. I dont think you understand, im not going to point to Islamic references because its the examples of the religion that speak louder than what is written. Whilst you say, its not 'true', it is true because its what is practiced. Of course there are exceptions, and some people advance. But in some of the really stricter religious countries, whilst the women are allowed to study in some countries, their expectation of women is to be married and be a mother with no real future in what she studied. You are lucky to have grown up in Tunisia, but try growing up under the taliban where all you will do is continue to be a farmer and women are literally invisible.

So you can keep quoting the quran, but I will be speaking about what is actually practiced.

2. Once again, I dont care at all about your scientific religious discoveries that you believe are from god himself. Im sorry to disappoint you but I certainly do not see any correlation of the big bang theory and the quote in the quran. Honestly you are wasting your time on this discussion with me because I have had it many many many times before, and I simply do not agree or see that any of the stuff mentioned in the quran as scientific proof, rather just good observations and coincidences.

I also have no interest in trying to prove these things happened in any other religion. As stated before, these 3 religions came from the same region, all improving on the last ones failures. The bible is a combination of stories, lessons, poetry and history. We all know that stories told in those days are over exaggerated and therefore anything written in that period from Judaism, Christianity and Islam, in my opinion are stories. There's a lot that can be learnt, some good examples. But thats really it for me.

You're holding onto something that happened so long ago than rather advancing in modern day science. I cant explain everyones reason for why they convert to the religion. But people read into things whatever they want to read into it. And for the most part, people leaving your religion is simply because of the extreme practices that they are forced to live under and not everyone wants to practice the religion according to some interpretation of a religious scholar.

I think we have reached the end of the debate here. This thread is about conversion and we have gone off topic.
1)YOU SAID:"So you can keep quoting the quran, but I will be speaking about what is actually practiced."==>Ok ok , that means that i have the rigth also to judge Jewish people refering to Israel's crimes , so i will kill jewish people here in Djerba, as they are doing in Gaza, i don't care if they are Zionist or not...Do You see u are saying the some thing.
2)YOU SAID:"You're holding onto something that happened so long ago than rather advancing in modern day science."==> Big Bang is not a modern Science, "Maurice Bucaille" was in middle age i think:shifty:, Oh my God what are sayig here?? ok you don't know it , demand it: i have many other things to say and that you will understand easily maybe..When i gave u mathematical miracles u said this is a coincidence , when i gave u 1 from more than 60 miracles in science u said this also a coincidence .So what is the difinition of science in your knowledge??:meh:
3)YOU SAID:"I think we have reached the end of the debate here. "===> Yeah , finally .:happy:.
The Conclusion : you take the opposit side to me just to be against me, you don't like to argumentation neither literally nor scientifically. I challenged you two times and you didn't convinced me even with the help of your friends.
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I'm satisfied with my participation ;).Frankly I waited a good scinetific answers to my arguments from ur part .

I'm Ok happy to discuss with you :happy:
Thanks ;)
 

missmetal

Well-Known Member
#69
1. No I don't see how this is the same but if you want to go kill people then that is your choice as long as you are aware of the consequences. I have no idea what you are referring to as being the same. Very confused.

You started to try and enlighten the group about what are certain religious laws, and saying that Muslims do this and that. I was replying saying that it's not the case and gave my examples to show you that what is written is not what is practiced.

Muslims killed Jews over the years and it was also written in your Quran to do so. I guess this is what you must be referring to, I have no idea. Like I said I am referring to what is practiced, as that is the example set for your religion.

2. I said from the very beginning when you raised this topic of miracles and scientific miracles in Islam that I had no interest in debating it with you. Therefor you have wasted your own time in waiting for me to prove something I said I am not bothered with discussing. I will believe ALL science that is factual and proven WITHOUT the use of god in any of it's references OR that the conclusion of the scientific findings are as a result of god. Do you now understand my scientific standpoint now?

Big Bang is still being studied and lucky for is science is still something that can evolve, be disproved and re-evaluated. Unlike the Quran.

I understand that many Tunisians struggle with the concept of time. No offence but it seems like 1 week is like a month and a month is like a year. Maurice Bucaille was born in 1920, the Big Bang theory established in 1927 and that is still a period of modern science. The last century was not that long ago.

Lastly, Im not opposing for the sake of opposing. I also mentioned I have had these debates before. I'm pretty clear about where i stand, I have no idea if you have traveled but you don't sound like you have done and debating with someone who has only had and known one view is extremely frustrating. No disrespect meant, it's not your fault if you have not travelled but if you are only reading information in favour of your religion then you don't have an objective view. You need to read the good and bad about your religion and it's history. Not just the glorified stories.

All the best

1)YOU SAID:"So you can keep quoting the quran, but I will be speaking about what is actually practiced."==>Ok ok , that means that i have the rigth also to judge Jewish people refering to Israel's crimes , so i will kill jewish people here in Djerba, as they are doing in Gaza, i don't care if they are Zionist or not...Do You see u are saying the some thing.
2)YOU SAID:"You're holding onto something that happened so long ago than rather advancing in modern day science."==> Big Bang is not a modern Science, "Maurice Bucaille" was in middle age i think:shifty:, Oh my God what are sayig here?? ok you don't know it , demand it: i have many other things to say and that you will understand easily maybe..When i gave u mathematical miracles u said this is a coincidence , when i gave u 1 from more than 60 miracles in science u said this also a coincidence .So what is the difinition of science in your knowledge??:meh:
3)YOU SAID:"I think we have reached the end of the debate here. "===> Yeah , finally .:happy:.
The Conclusion : you take the opposit side to me just to be against me, you don't like to argumentation neither literally nor scientifically. I challenged you two times and you didn't convinced me even with the help of your friends.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm satisfied with my participation ;).Frankly I waited a good scinetific answers to my arguments from ur part .

I'm Ok happy to discuss with you :happy:
Thanks ;)
 
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stm

Member
#70
1. No I don't see how this is the same but if you want to go kill people then that is your choice as long as you are aware of the consequences. I have no idea what you are referring to as being the same. Very confused.

You started to try and enlighten the group about what are certain religious laws, and saying that Muslims do this and that. I was replying saying that it's not the case and gave my examples to show you that what is written is not what is practiced.

Muslims killed Jews over the years and it was also written in your Quran to do so. I guess this is what you must be referring to, I have no idea. Like I said I am referring to what is practiced, as that is the example set for your religion.

2. I said from the very beginning when you raised this topic of miracles and scientific miracles in Islam that I had no interest in debating it with you. Therefor you have wasted your own time in waiting for me to prove something I said I am not bothered with discussing. I will believe ALL science that is factual and proven WITHOUT the use of god in any of it's references OR that the conclusion of the scientific findings are as a result of god. Do you now understand my scientific standpoint now?

Big Bang is still being studied and lucky for is science is still something that can evolve, be disproved and re-evaluated. Unlike the Quran.

I understand that many Tunisians struggle with the concept of time. No offence but it seems like 1 week is like a month and a month is like a year. Maurice Bucaille was born in 1920, the Big Bang theory established in 1927 and that is still a period of modern science. The last century was not that long ago.

Lastly, Im not opposing for the sake of opposing. I also mentioned I have had these debates before. I'm pretty clear about where i stand, I have no idea if you have traveled but you don't sound like you have done and debating with someone who has only had and known one view is extremely frustrating. No disrespect meant, it's not your fault if you have not travelled but if you are only reading information in favour of your religion then you don't have an objective view. You need to read the good and bad about your religion and it's history. Not just the glorified stories.

All the best
1)YOu avoid scientific debate because you don't have convincing answers.:finger:
2)You don't even take the time to read carefelly my answers,and u tell this a debate.You just want to impose you point of view.
3)Bad about my relegion comes from people not from the relegion laws themselves.
4)There is no need to travel to discuss such debate , but a good argumentation.More than that i gave you what scientists from your country say about Islam, they COME from your country they live with You and they have a good reputaiotn ...They passed all their lifes in scientific research and then you say this is a coincidence? If you have any more higher qualification then one of them ok all my agreements for ur "scientific standpoint" but remember that scientists take from each other :finger: so the is not a reason to avoid their researchs.
5)I swear i have many other things to show ,thatu they will be totally blocked but i finish here because as i said you don't like to discuss objectively.
All the Best ;)
 

missmetal

Well-Known Member
#71
1)YOu avoid scientific debate because you don't have convincing answers.:finger:
2)You don't even take the time to read carefelly my answers,and u tell this a debate.You just want to impose you point of view.
3)Bad about my relegion comes from people not from the relegion laws themselves.
4)There is no need to travel to discuss such debate , but a good argumentation.More than that i gave you what scientists from your country say about Islam, they COME from your country they live with You and they have a good reputaiotn ...They passed all their lifes in scientific research and then you say this is a coincidence? If you have any more higher qualification then one of them ok all my agreements for ur "scientific standpoint" but remember that scientists take from each other :finger: so the is not a reason to avoid their researchs.
5)I swear i have many other things to show ,thatu they will be totally blocked but i finish here because as i said you don't like to discuss objectively.
All the Best ;)

1. Nope. If you take the time to read what I wrote you will see my scientific standpoint and it does not include god. How can you not understand that?
2. I was not aware that you were staining next to me watching me read. However, see number 1.
3. Disagree, it's from both, some who practice managed to use their better judgement and not act out some of the teachings in the religion..like not wearing a hijab or sex before marriage. It's all their personal choice that they feel comfy with.
4. Scientist from my country who have converted are compelled to support the religious view. To go against the Quran is illegal right? Clearly they have a weak point since they feel,the need to convert to another religion. I also stated in my last reply that the fact you pointed out about the Big Bang, left me with no evidence of any correlation between the two. Coincidence or someone's imagination,you choose but the Quran does not equal scienctific facts before they were discovered or recorded after the religion was created.

You are now getting to a point where you can't handle the fact that someone does not give a crap about the points you are trying to prove. So who's the one pushing their view? It's not me, because what view have I pushed apart from saying I don't support your theories and have no interest in debati them. If I was pushing my view I would be pushing the argument to discredit your facts. I'm not a scientist and I don't have to the time to do scientific research. But I have stated I don't support or will bother with evidence that claims to lead to God.
 

Aysha

Member
#72
salaam. maybe i misunderstand this, but for a man , he can marry a believer. there is nothing that requires she needs to be musulman. she can be catholic, cristian, buddhist etc ... a woman on the other hand, needs to marry a musulman, tht means any muslim woman wanna marry etranger, the man must convert to Islam.

A muslim man can marry a women from "the people of the book" that does not include Buddhist or Hindus this applies only to Jews and Christians
 

Aysha

Member
#73
Hhh, Ok , let's say it's propaganda and not True.Why you don't ask some one from ur country about that ? u will see the surprinsing reallity ,, It came that 1250 person and in the some time ,together ,in Deutch i think or UK converted to islam , they all said the "Shahada", and without oppression or obligation , as says/thinks "missmental " often .
I am a British Asian Muslim(not a convert but a muslim from birth) and I can tell you ... local to me in London is one of the biggest mosques in Europe and everyday at LEAST one person converts to Islam without being "oppressed"

in order to know real Islam you need to study it not just listen to what sky tv and the daily mail has to say!!
and some so called Muslims in Tunisia who drink gamble have sex with different women are not an example of a Muslim!
 

Aysha

Member
#74
oh and the Quran had facts that science only found later!
 

missmetal

Well-Known Member
#75
oh and the Quran had facts that science only found later!
Aysha, i dont think anyone was saying that all people are forced to convert. But there is pressure from husbands and earlier on in history people felt pressured to become muslim because their circumstances would improve, especially in the ottoman empire era. That era was wonderful for muslims but not so wonderful for all the non muslims. Of course some people can adjust to it, but many left those areas or converted. So to say that people convert on their own free will, ALL the time, is just not true. Just because someone is not holding a gun to your head, it does not mean that you know for sure if they are being forced or not.

With regards to the scientific facts in the quran, I have been shown some of these and I just dont see them as proof of science...maybe there are some, but the ones that I have been shown with regards to mountains and embryo's I just dont agree with. People were studying stuff long before islam. if some stuff is true, then good for those who wrote it down and put it in your book. I just dont know what it is supposed to prove to people? Just because something is written down in a book long time ago, is that supposed to show that we should believe god exists? or your religion is the right one? or that the arabs of that time we really clever people?

What about all the other science proven by people before islam who are not religious? We can believe them too then? Sure we can choose to until something else proves otherwise. But does it prove the existence or non existence of god, i dont believe it can.
 

Scottochott

Well-Known Member
#76
Isome so called Muslims in Tunisia who drink gamble have sex with different women are not an example of a Muslim!
I know many who call themselves Muslims, both in the uk and Tunisia, who are guilty of the above, yet their interpretation allows them their behaviour, they are still Muslims, whether you approve or not. If you live in London you must be aware of the huge influx of rich Muslims, especially from the Gulf region, in summer. They are the worst I've ever seen for drinking, gambling, whoring, anti-social behaviour, etc. they are Muslim and I doubt they would say otherwise. All religions are guilty of double standards, and all have different interpretations of their religious texts, there is no single truth or rule for any believer it would seem, they can all see a different meaning, and it is naive to think otherwise. Personally I believe it proves what a nonsense all religions are.

oh and the Quran had facts that science only found later!
I have no doubt the ancient Arab world was well educated and indeed the foundation of learning in a lot of fields, I would be interested to hear specific examples from the Quran you would care to share, please give specific references so I can look at them in my English language Quran.
 

Aysha

Member
#78
I know many who call themselves Muslims, both in the uk and Tunisia, who are guilty of the above, yet their interpretation allows them their behaviour, they are still Muslims, whether you approve or not. If you live in London you must be aware of the huge influx of rich Muslims, especially from the Gulf region, in summer. They are the worst I've ever seen for drinking, gambling, whoring, anti-social behaviour, etc. they are Muslim and I doubt they would say otherwise. All religions are guilty of double standards, and all have different interpretations of their religious texts, there is no single truth or rule for any believer it would seem, they can all see a different meaning, and it is naive to think otherwise. Personally I believe it proves what a nonsense all religions ar




This applies to all religions in all country you have good and bad everywhere I just said Tunisia as the Majority here know Tunisia quite well but I can think of a zillion people who use Islam as a shield for certain acts which in truth is forbidden!! but this goes for all religions not just Islam... Islam is just the Media's favourite Target!!!
 
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Aysha

Member
#79
Aysha, i dont think anyone was saying that all people are forced to convert. But there is pressure from husbands and earlier on in history people felt pressured to become muslim because their circumstances would improve, especially in the ottoman empire era. That era was wonderful for muslims but not so wonderful for all the non muslims. Of course some people can adjust to it, but many left those areas or converted. So to say that people convert on their own free will, ALL the time, is just not true. Just because someone is not holding a gun to your head, it does not mean that you know for sure if they are being forced or not.

With regards to the scientific facts in the quran, I have been shown some of these and I just dont see them as proof of science...maybe there are some, but the ones that I have been shown with regards to mountains and embryo's I just dont agree with. People were studying stuff long before islam. if some stuff is true, then good for those who wrote it down and put it in your book. I just dont know what it is supposed to prove to people? Just because something is written down in a book long time ago, is that supposed to show that we should believe god exists? or your religion is the right one? or that the arabs of that time we really clever people?

What about all the other science proven by people before islam who are not religious? We can believe them too then? Sure we can choose to until something else proves otherwise. But does it prove the existence or non existence of god, i dont believe it can.

if you going to point the finger at the whole muslim Ummah because of some past empire then believe me I can bring up a few too so lets not go down that route!!

as for being forced to convert wtf!!! why would you be with a man that forces you into something you do not want?????????? I married a Tunisian Muslim because I am a muslim! would I marry a non muslim? no! because I will not convert for no one!!
 

Scottochott

Well-Known Member
#80
http://www.missionislam.com/science/book.htm

this link has all references from the Holy Quran
What a load of nonsense, nothing here constitutes scientific facts only discovered recently, merely basic observations that can be tenuously linked to vague descriptions. A prime example of people believing what they want to and seeing 'truths' where there are none. All you have done is prove that religious texts are all things to all people, anyone can pluck out a passage and insert their own meaning.
 
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