Urgent info please re. Islam

janette

Well-Known Member
#1
I am in need of some urgent advice from those with a broad knowledge of Islam – and forgive me please, but I am not seeking people’s opinions on the situation. The situation is this.
My friend has been married to a Tunisian for 22 years and has lived with him in the UK and for the last 16 years here in Hammamet. He is usually very westernized and an intelligent business man. She has not converted to Islam, but has brought the children up as Muslims and is very strict regarding just what they can do and cannot do – aware of the fact that they may come under more scrutiny than other children. They have three lovely children – daughters aged 17, 15 and a boy of 7 – who pray and read the Holy Koran - and generally live a happy life here in Tunisia. However, they have a very devout aunty living in Holland who visits her mother for 3 months every two years living with her in the house under my friend’s apartment and each visit brings trauma and heartbreak and threatens to break up the family.
Two years ago Aunty spent a lot of time with the two girls as they had ‘the devil in them’ and she concentrated in particular on the elder one. I am trying to be factual here, but can only say that I felt that what was happening was a case of brainwashing. Within a short time of her arrival the girl was terrified and convinced that she had the devil inside her and she changed from a happy outgoing girl to an often unhappy and worried one. First Aunty insisted that all photos of the family must be taken down out of view as the devil was hiding in them and thus affecting the girls. My friend did this. Aunty them presided over a type of exorcism attended by both parents where the girl had to drink ‘koranic’ yellow water which resulted in the girl becoming unconscious – going into spasms and speaking incomprehensible language. When I was told about this I really objected, as I felt that it involved some drug of some sort and was a dangerous thing to do, but Aunty is such a strong personality that both parents went along with it . It also affected my friend who became a totally changed person who seemed to be drained of all motivation. The eldest girl often came to me worried about being full of evil and I tried to tell her that this was rubbish and that she was not taken over by the devil but was a young innocent girl and a good Muslim. More in this vein – all supported by the father – until aunty eventually went back to Holland and life went back to normal.
Three days ago Aunty arrived for another 3 month’s stay and already the problems have started. Dad is away on business but Aunty has phoned him to say that the reason the elder girl is so pale is because the devil is in her, the reason she will not go to sleep at 9.30 is because the devil is not letting her, the little teenage spots are the devil inside her, the younger girl is etc etc and dad listens and then phones mum and starts harassing her. Aunty explains to the children that all this is because the mother is a non Muslim and so the devil can infiltrate the children. She is subtly undermining their mum’s authority – for instance when mum went to fetch the younger girl upstairs to eat/ sleep (can’t remember which) aunty twice told her that she wasn’t ready and couldn’t come – and the girl obeyed Aunty. The older girl is starting to see that what is happening is not correct – hence Aunty now concentrating on the younger girl - and yesterday rang me to ring her mum to come over, as mum was sobbing and absolutely desolate.
When I was in my 20’s I studied the Holy Koran for two years and just do not think that this behavior is acceptable for a true Muslim. All the family know that I have the greatest respect for TRUE Islam which is why they have come to me. I have tried to find an English speaking Imam so that I can discuss what is the best way forward for my friend and how she should handle this situation, but there is no-one here. I have found her various passages in my Koran for her to read, but suggested to her that if I could not get an English speaking Imam; I would post this as there are people on T’c who are more knowledgeable than me. She was happy for me to do this. Please, can you confirm that this is not correct behavior, so that at least she has some wise words to support her and if possible some words from the Holy Koran to support your words. Also perhaps some references she could give Aunty if she finds the courage to do so? I appreciate any help and advice. Many thanks - Jamila
 
N

nela

Guest
#2
Hello Jamila I hope you will find information you are looking for. x x
 

janette

Well-Known Member
#3
Thanks for that Nela. I am sure that someone will be able to help. x
 

Mezoo

VIP Member
#4
23 years in islam
no islam in this story
 

Mezoo

VIP Member
#5
nope, no islam in this story

23 years in islam no islam in this story
I am in need of some urgent advice from those with a broad knowledge of Islam – and forgive me please, but I am not seeking people’s opinions on the situation. The situation is this.

a religious belief is a belief so by default all you can get are opinions.
you did come to a good place for opinions as an internet forum has many of those.


an intelligent business man.
Intelligent? an intelligent person would not ever let this happen.
he is weak and controllable by women who are from his family but not his wife.
...this is a tunisian trait and has been documented here many times.

Dad is away on business
how convenient- fits the previous profile
undermining their mum’s authority
CRUX OF THE MATTER-see above 2

Two years ago Aunty spent a lot of time with the two girls as they had ‘the devil in them’
sick aunty
Aunty them presided over a type of exorcism attended by both parents where the girl had to drink ‘koranic’ yellow water
my guess this alone would be a jailable offense in tuinsia

married to a Tunisian for 22 years
keef-keef
16 years here in Hammamet
ok

if I could not get an English speaking Imam;
not your job after this many years. the lady can do it herself
yesterday rang me to ring her mum to come over
and bring the police with you so the daughter can explain all this in person-she's old enough
do not think that this behavior is acceptable for a true Muslim.
Mam, not just for muslims, for anybody
 

sianperkins89

Well-Known Member
#6
This sort of behaviour reminds me of the mother in the film Carrie. janette this has nothing to do with islam but just some people are crazy with religion in general and some take it TOO far and turn it from something you should love and embrace into something you should fear.
 

Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#7
I'd not let Aunty through the door. This is emotional child abuse masquerading as religion.

And I'd hold Aunty down and make her drink this Koranic yellow liquid!

I hope you find your answers - I'm sure when Black Mamba and Tunisianbelle come on they'll be able to help.
 

Nobody

New Member
#8
I have started out with this article to show the importance and need for proper knowledge of Ruqyah (exorcism) to be spread out around the world by the will of Allah.

Regarding how sihr (magic) begins to take effect on victims:

In Sword against Black Magic and Evil Magicians, Wahid Abdussalam Bali goes on to say,

“The agreement between a Sahir (magician) and a Demon”

In most cases, an agreement is set up between a sahir (magician) and a demon, requiring that the former commit certain pagan rituals, wether secretly or openly, and the latter provide the services he needs or send someone to do the job. Usually the agreement is set up between a sahir and one of the chiefs of the tribe of the jinn and demons. The chief instructs one of the tribes disrespectful demons to work for the sahir, obeying it’s orders and informing him of past events, causing seperation of a man from his wife, a love spell between two people, making someone incompetent and other conditions.

Distinctive Features of A Sahir’s Work

If you find one of these following charcteristics in a person who treats people suffering from sihr or other relate illnesses, then this person is definetly a sahir (magician).

1.) He asks the patient his and his mother’s names.

2.) He takes a sweaty garment from the patient (a piece of cloth, hat ect..)

3.) He sometimes asks for an animal, with certain specifications, in order to slaughter it without saying the name of Allah. He may use the sacrificial blood to stain some painful areas of the patient, or throw the carcass in on a ruined site.

4.) He writes incantations.

5.) He recites unclear incantations

6.) He gives the patient a hijab (incantation written on a piece of paper), which contains squares within which letters or figures are written.

7.) He instructs the patient to isolate himself/herself in a dark room and to not talk to people for a certain period of time.

8.) He sometimes instructs the patient to not touch water for a certain period of time, usually forty days. This indicates the this particular jinn working for the sahir is Christian.

9.) He gives the patient some items to bury in the ground.

10.) He gives the patient some pieces of paper to burn to use as incens for their body.

11.) He murmurs unclear words.

12.) He sometimes informs the patient his name, his town and the reason for his visit.

13.) He writes broken letters on a piece of paper (hijab) or on a plate made of white porcelain, and instructs the patient to dissolve the writing in water, and then drink it.”

Shaykh Sulaymaan al-‘Alwaan (www.islam-qa.com) had this to say about practioners of magic:

“Magic in all its forms in haraam according to all divinely-revealed laws, and there is scholarly consensus that magic and learning magic are haraam. Magic goes against that which the Messengers brought and it opposes the purpose for which the Books were revealed. Most of the scholars were of the view that the one who practices magic is a kaafir whom the authorities are obliged to execute.
“But neither of these two (angels) taught anyone (such things) till they had said, ‘We are for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us)’”

[Quran al-Baqarah 2:102]

This proves that magic is kufr (disbelief).


Read more about Magic and Quran here:

http://survivorsareus.com/exorcism/
 

Nobody

New Member
#9
do not think that this behavior is acceptable for a true Muslim.
Mam, not just for muslims, for anybody
In fact, not only the wanna-be exorcist, but also the parents should be brought to justice for children abuse!
 

beenthere

New Member
#10
23 years in islam
no islam in this story
well said. all sounds like bida, woe to those who practice bida.

"Linguistically, the word Bida'ah means to come up with something that does not have a precedence. The closest word to it in the English language is "Innovation." -wik
 

newtosousse

Active Member
#11
Janette,

I think the experts on Islam will respond to this, but reading your story I wonder what part of this aunt is Islamic. She sounds like she has a distorted belief system. It is sad that she can come to your friends house and take over, what a nightmare. She sounds like the aunt from hell. You said that your friend lives in the UK.

Does she live in London by any chance?

I have a number of friends who can put her in touch with an English speaking imam, if she does.
 

janette

Well-Known Member
#12
Islam

They did live in England but have lived in Hammamet for many years.
I cannot stress too highly how much stress my friend is under - it is so easy to say that she should do this and that, but she is frankly afraid of the whole situation and seems drained of any motivation - the change in her is horrific - she is normally a strong confident person. It is because of this that i am trying to find Islamic knowledge to give her the confidence to speak out.
We all know what WE would like to do - I certainly do, but this does not help her. I know that if I said anything I would be banned from any family contact. There is already help in the replies and I do hope that there is more to come.
Thank you all again. xx
 

Trulymadlydeeply

Well-Known Member
#13
Janette if I were in this mothers shoes I would go straight to the police. This is not normal behaviour and sounds like she is making these children suffer. Mum needs to be really strong and act on this immediately. What kindof husband/father would allow someone to do this to his children???
 

Kris

Administrator
Staff member
#14
My wife belives in this evil spirit mallarky and posession. There is quite a cottage industry in magic up here in Bizerte.

My wife being the "Ho of Bizerte" married to an Englishman is quite weak and is mindful of the evil eye etc etc.

She also doesn't like strange women making me coffee either incase they drop a hair in my drink and force seduce me with magic. At least I have my excuse for when the wife find me out with Jessica Biel "it wasn't me: it was the magic hair coffee thing!" All this comes from a woman highly educated and apparently rational on the outside. So one can only assume what bubbles in the mind of the simple country folk.

In this case the only thing I would go "Exorsist" on would be that Aunt.

 

bubbles

Active Member
#15
hi janette, is it very disturbing to hear what your friend and her children are going through I hope that you find what your looking for here good luck xx
 

Black Mamba

Well-Known Member
#16
I am in need of some urgent advice from those with a broad knowledge of Islam – and forgive me please, but I am not seeking people’s opinions on the situation. The situation is this.
My friend has been married to a Tunisian for 22 years and has lived with him in the UK and for the last 16 years here in Hammamet. He is usually very westernized and an intelligent business man. She has not converted to Islam, but has brought the children up as Muslims and is very strict regarding just what they can do and cannot do – aware of the fact that they may come under more scrutiny than other children. They have three lovely children – daughters aged 17, 15 and a boy of 7 – who pray and read the Holy Koran - and generally live a happy life here in Tunisia. However, they have a very devout aunty living in Holland who visits her mother for 3 months every two years living with her in the house under my friend’s apartment and each visit brings trauma and heartbreak and threatens to break up the family.
Two years ago Aunty spent a lot of time with the two girls as they had ‘the devil in them’ and she concentrated in particular on the elder one. I am trying to be factual here, but can only say that I felt that what was happening was a case of brainwashing. Within a short time of her arrival the girl was terrified and convinced that she had the devil inside her and she changed from a happy outgoing girl to an often unhappy and worried one. First Aunty insisted that all photos of the family must be taken down out of view as the devil was hiding in them and thus affecting the girls. My friend did this. Aunty them presided over a type of exorcism attended by both parents where the girl had to drink ‘koranic’ yellow water which resulted in the girl becoming unconscious – going into spasms and speaking incomprehensible language. When I was told about this I really objected, as I felt that it involved some drug of some sort and was a dangerous thing to do, but Aunty is such a strong personality that both parents went along with it . It also affected my friend who became a totally changed person who seemed to be drained of all motivation. The eldest girl often came to me worried about being full of evil and I tried to tell her that this was rubbish and that she was not taken over by the devil but was a young innocent girl and a good Muslim. More in this vein – all supported by the father – until aunty eventually went back to Holland and life went back to normal.
Three days ago Aunty arrived for another 3 month’s stay and already the problems have started. Dad is away on business but Aunty has phoned him to say that the reason the elder girl is so pale is because the devil is in her, the reason she will not go to sleep at 9.30 is because the devil is not letting her, the little teenage spots are the devil inside her, the younger girl is etc etc and dad listens and then phones mum and starts harassing her. Aunty explains to the children that all this is because the mother is a non Muslim and so the devil can infiltrate the children. She is subtly undermining their mum’s authority – for instance when mum went to fetch the younger girl upstairs to eat/ sleep (can’t remember which) aunty twice told her that she wasn’t ready and couldn’t come – and the girl obeyed Aunty. The older girl is starting to see that what is happening is not correct – hence Aunty now concentrating on the younger girl - and yesterday rang me to ring her mum to come over, as mum was sobbing and absolutely desolate.
When I was in my 20’s I studied the Holy Koran for two years and just do not think that this behavior is acceptable for a true Muslim. All the family know that I have the greatest respect for TRUE Islam which is why they have come to me. I have tried to find an English speaking Imam so that I can discuss what is the best way forward for my friend and how she should handle this situation, but there is no-one here. I have found her various passages in my Koran for her to read, but suggested to her that if I could not get an English speaking Imam; I would post this as there are people on T’c who are more knowledgeable than me. She was happy for me to do this. Please, can you confirm that this is not correct behavior, so that at least she has some wise words to support her and if possible some words from the Holy Koran to support your words. Also perhaps some references she could give Aunty if she finds the courage to do so? I appreciate any help and advice. Many thanks - Jamila

First of all, Islam was very clear about all this" Devil and Jinn" thing, anyone who does those kind of exorcism thing is actually sharing Allah with another god, that in itself is a big no no.

Now, any type of extremism is bad, I know many people like that"aunt" extremely stupid and ignorant, people like that have no place in God's paradise, terrifying children and teenagers when everyone know how vulnerable they are.

As far as I know, the parents are to blame, they are responsible of the well being of their kids, if they let them to demoniac aunt, they're committed sin.

http://submission.org/satan/jinn.html

I found that about the jinns in the Koran, I believe that all what the aunty is doing is rubbish and doesn't have any basis in Islam.

The best to do here is to email this guy:

[email protected]

He would know what to do in these circumstances.

Something else, that woman ( and the parents) should be trialed for child abuse.

The girl should stand up for herself.
 

beenthere

New Member
#17
there is black magic. it is very real, but those whose practice it are cursed themselves. any kind of magic or superstitions are forbidden in Islam.
 

Black Mamba

Well-Known Member
#18
there is black magic. it is very real, but those whose practice it are cursed themselves. any kind of magic or superstitions are forbidden in Islam.
I think that magic/black magic/voodoo ( you name) need weak souls to flourish
 

beenthere

New Member
#19
I think that magic/black magic/voodoo ( you name) need weak souls to flourish
i agree. anyone with strong iman(faith in Allah) would not fear it. they would know no harm can come to you except by Allahs will. Allah does protect those who ask.
 

paula01

New Member
#20
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