visitor visa reply

#21
Thank you for your measured and diplomatic response. You are quite right on every point. Yes the right of appeal has gone so you have to resubmit an application. I accept fully your point about having a Tunisian family member because taken to the extreme I could argue that it is a breach to have to apply and pay for a visa as opposed to my daughter marrying a French man which would not involve any visa applications.
The only point I would have to differ on is the Human Rights aspect. Any interference of those rights has to be proportionate so the reasons they supply if refused must be subject to scrutiny if need be by the court. Even more so, now that the right of appeal has been withdrawn. Otherwise if the reasons or process are obviously flawed apart from a judicial review what accountability is there? The main Jurisprudence is that policy is one thing, operating it is another. Many Government bodies have powers it is how they use them that must be accountable.
Regards
 

Scottochott

Well-Known Member
#22
Thank you for your measured and diplomatic response. You are quite right on every point. Yes the right of appeal has gone so you have to resubmit an application. I accept fully your point about having a Tunisian family member because taken to the extreme I could argue that it is a breach to have to apply and pay for a visa as opposed to my daughter marrying a French man which would not involve any visa applications.
The only point I would have to differ on is the Human Rights aspect. Any interference of those rights has to be proportionate so the reasons they supply if refused must be subject to scrutiny if need be by the court. Even more so, now that the right of appeal has been withdrawn. Otherwise if the reasons or process are obviously flawed apart from a judicial review what accountability is there? The main Jurisprudence is that policy is one thing, operating it is another. Many Government bodies have powers it is how they use them that must be accountable.
Regards
I would be interested to see how you address my previous points
 

missmetal

Well-Known Member
#23
Thank you for your measured and diplomatic response. You are quite right on every point. Yes the right of appeal has gone so you have to resubmit an application. I accept fully your point about having a Tunisian family member because taken to the extreme I could argue that it is a breach to have to apply and pay for a visa as opposed to my daughter marrying a French man which would not involve any visa applications.
The only point I would have to differ on is the Human Rights aspect. Any interference of those rights has to be proportionate so the reasons they supply if refused must be subject to scrutiny if need be by the court. Even more so, now that the right of appeal has been withdrawn. Otherwise if the reasons or process are obviously flawed apart from a judicial review what accountability is there? The main Jurisprudence is that policy is one thing, operating it is another. Many Government bodies have powers it is how they use them that must be accountable.
Regards
I would be happy if they allowed for someone to appeal the decision, but I think reapplying is common practice in most countries, for a Visitors visa. Out of curiosity, does your daughter live in Tunisia with him? If she is living with him and they are travelling together, and he's working, i really cant see it being refused.

Regarding your daughter marrying a french person. There's no VISA required to marry, her right to marry exists, to anyone, but there is a risk, which is the point Jane was making. Even marrying someone from the EU has its challenges, just different ones.
 
#24
Do you mean his grand daughter's husband? If he is your son in law, he can't be your father's too! I'm sure he would like to meet him, but it is not a human right under law! Why if he is married to your daughter are you not talking about him coming here to be with her, or vice versa?
As Captain Mannering used to say I wondered who would notice that first. He is my Son-in-Law and my father could not travel to Tunisia and will never be able to. I am the Sponsor for the VV and I do not know what my father would call a grand son-in-law? I do not know what the Human Rights Act regards as a family but any one who is affected by the Public Bodies actions can be a victim for Human Rights purposes. My father wishes to see the new Husband of his granddaughter
 
#25
My daughter is currently working all over Europe teaching TEFL. her base is in the UK with myself and her mother which is why I am sponsoring. Yes he has a good job and my daughter plans to settle in Tunisia in the next year or so.
 

Jane BM

Well-Known Member
#26
I'm not really getting the references to Star Trek, university challenge or Dads Army.....maybe it's a generation thing!!

Hopefully none of the worst case scenarios happen because I'm afraid I don't fancy your chances....I've seen far stronger cases being refused....and refused at appeal when they used to allow it!
 

Scottochott

Well-Known Member
#27
Another case which makes me despair of some people's attitudes and the system which gives them hope
 
#28
Jane you must remember them because they were aired at the same time as Crossroads first time round which was filmed in your neck of the woods.
 

kassie

Well-Known Member
#29
Thank you for your legal and geographical views. You are quite correct to quote Article 8(2) which is why I said that I require the reasons for a refusal because as you rightly state it is a qualified right as opposed to Article 2 which is an absolute right. I am British citizen residing in the UK so The UKVI service (formerly UKBA) are a public body so are as a result liable to conform with the Human Rights Act 1998. Consequently their reasons must be shown to comply with Article 8(2) if not I am a victim as defined by the act and allowed to seek a remedy in the UK court for a breach of my right to a family life i.e. to see my son-in-law. As you have helpfully pointed out he is not European but I am and so I can bring the legal action.
I take your point about past cases however case law and legal precedents are made when people persevere, and then rulings can be made.
Thanks for your replies and interest.
Are you a "lawyer" then? ....or just trying to make for "a case law"? Many people have come here and given their "situations".....some similar to yours! However....as was pointed out.....it is not "yours" as in application, but your son in law's. The rules are applied and each application decision given on it's merit! However, good luck to you! Let us know the outcome!
 

kassie

Well-Known Member
#30
The Human Rights Act 1998 in the UK ( Section 6) which should recognise Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. If it is a refusal I will require the reasons why the UKVI service deem it necessary and proportionate to interfere with my Family life in the UK.
Chelsea FC
Is that the football match? ;) lol
 

Trulymadlydeeply

Well-Known Member
#31
I think you are as most would be a concerned father. However we are/were all on that tip once and believe you me what is right and correct is never the same in Tunisia. It is a law unto itself!!!! There answer re human rights will be for your daughter to go and live there.... If you choose a visa national for a spouse this has to be an option. Hopefully it will be a positive outcome.
 

Jane BM

Well-Known Member
#32
Jane you must remember them because they were aired at the same time as Crossroads first time round which was filmed in your neck of the woods.
Funnily enough Crossroads frontage was filmed just a mile away from my home.....least that's what my mom tells me anyway!!! :p

Don't see the relevance though....
 

kassie

Well-Known Member
#33
Thank you for your measured and diplomatic response. You are quite right on every point. Yes the right of appeal has gone so you have to resubmit an application. I accept fully your point about having a Tunisian family member because taken to the extreme I could argue that it is a breach to have to apply and pay for a visa as opposed to my daughter marrying a French man which would not involve any visa applications.
The only point I would have to differ on is the Human Rights aspect. Any interference of those rights has to be proportionate so the reasons they supply if refused must be subject to scrutiny if need be by the court. Even more so, now that the right of appeal has been withdrawn. Otherwise if the reasons or process are obviously flawed apart from a judicial review what accountability is there? The main Jurisprudence is that policy is one thing, operating it is another. Many Government bodies have powers it is how they use them that must be accountable.
Regards
Well...just have to say...you appear to have all the "answers" which makes me wonder why you need to ask "the questions" here? People here have a wealth of "knowledge"....mostly from personal experience....and will give you information .....whether it is what you want to accept or not! Good luck anyway.
 
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#34
Jane you must remember them because they were aired at the same time as Crossroads first time round which was filmed in your neck of the woods.
Well...just have to say...you appear to have all the "answers" which makes me wonder why you need to ask "the questions" here? People here have a wealth of "knowledge"....mostly from personal experience....and will give you information .....whether it is what you want to accept or not! Good luck anyway.
Unfortunately as feared the answer was no. I am awaiting an e-mail containing the refusal letter/reasons so I will know more then. Obviously I was being overly optimistic so now I will have to regroup so to speak
 

Jane BM

Well-Known Member
#35
Unfortunately as feared the answer was no. I am awaiting an e-mail containing the refusal letter/reasons so I will know more then. Obviously I was being overly optimistic so now I will have to regroup so to speak
Sorry to hear that......sadly it seems this is the norm...I could even possibly hazard a guess that in the refusal it'll be there was insufficient evidence to prove his 'intent to return'....

Maybe use it as a learning curve and if you decide to reapply throw every bit of paperwork and documentation to support his application at them!
 

missmetal

Well-Known Member
#36
Unfortunately as feared the answer was no. I am awaiting an e-mail containing the refusal letter/reasons so I will know more then. Obviously I was being overly optimistic so now I will have to regroup so to speak
Sorry to hear that, my hubby went through the same with a different embassy. its very disappointing but you just have to correct what was wrong and try again.
 

Trulymadlydeeply

Well-Known Member
#37
Sorry to hear that curious as to why it was refused.
 

Essem

Moderator
Staff member
#38
Sorry to hear the bad news GITS, lets us know why please?
 
#39
Sorry to hear the bad news GITS, lets us know why please?
Well surprise, surprise, intent to return He earns 750 TD per month and the ECO would not accept that he would spend £700 on a 10 day trip. That figure included the flight. I was accommodating and feeding him and he wanted some spending money. He answered the application question honestly. The icing on the cake is that he has a good sum in the bank as supported by a bank statement which has not been mentioned in the decision. Also it says that his spouse is in the UK and he has no ties in Tunisia which again is incorrect as documented with Family details.
It could well appear as if the decision was made backwards if you get my drift. Anyway I am now in the process of applying for a Managers review.
 

Jane BM

Well-Known Member
#40
Well surprise, surprise, intent to return He earns 750 TD per month and the ECO would not accept that he would spend £700 on a 10 day trip. That figure included the flight. I was accommodating and feeding him and he wanted some spending money. He answered the application question honestly. The icing on the cake is that he has a good sum in the bank as supported by a bank statement which has not been mentioned in the decision. Also it says that his spouse is in the UK and he has no ties in Tunisia which again is incorrect as documented with Family details.
It could well appear as if the decision was made backwards if you get my drift. Anyway I am now in the process of applying for a Managers review.
Doesn't surprise me in the least......and I don't blame you for doing what you're doing.

Worrying though isn't it that some case workers are so sadly lacking that they're unable to digest and comprehend the documents and proof put under their noses. I agree, I think often it starts with a No and then they look through the documentation to support it.
 
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