Male circumcision

[lynn]

well i can't see how a piece of skin can make a difference to be honest I find it hilarious

 

[Freya]

I think if the incidence of cervical cancer in Muslim countries is lower than in western/european countries it is more likely to be due to the fact that most muslim women don't have as many sexual partners as women in european countries - the more sexual partners, the higher the risk of cervical cancer. It is caused mainly by a virus that is spread from partner to partner during intercourse even if the man is circumcised. Hence the absence of foreskin in Muslim countries may not be the main reason why cervical cancer rates are lower than in other countries.

 

[Cas]

I think if the incidence of cervical cancer in Muslim countries is lower than in western/european countries it is more likely to be due to the fact that most muslim women don't have as many sexual partners as women in european countries - the more sexual partners, the higher the risk of cervical cancer. It is caused mainly by a virus that is spread from partner to partner during intercourse even if the man is circumcised. Hence the absence of foreskin in Muslim countries may not be the main reason why cervical cancer rates are lower than in other countries.

Yes that`s exactly it, amongst a few other lifestyle differences, stats collection, etc, etc, it`s blatantly obvious. Many contributary factors involved and unsafe to put total emphasis on any one factor.

 

[NetNiet]

So the study I looked at was incorrect? It was just talking about 2004!

Yes I took the same year as you did and checked several official websites.
So if the study from Holland wasn't correct, I'm not sure about the other ones.

 

[deblee71]

I think if the incidence of cervical cancer in Muslim countries is lower than in western/european countries it is more likely to be due to the fact that most muslim women don't have as many sexual partners as women in european countries - the more sexual partners, the higher the risk of cervical cancer. It is caused mainly by a virus that is spread from partner to partner during intercourse even if the man is circumcised. Hence the absence of foreskin in Muslim countries may not be the main reason why cervical cancer rates are lower than in other countries.

Exactly Freya, if you have a little look through previous posts you'll see that that was a big topic for debate ;-) interesting stuff lol x

 

[kassie]

Hello....sorry but I have got to say......"research" can be skewed! In the end, I believe we will always go with what "we believe" if it fits our thinking? Research is great, but we must be able to look behind what researchers "tell us" It is our ability to analyse the findings that are given that enable us to have contructive "arguments"?

Kassie

xxx

 

[KheeKhee]

Hello....sorry but I have got to say......"research" can be skewed! In the end, I believe we will always go with what "we believe" if it fits our thinking? Research is great, but we must be able to look behind what researchers "tell us" It is our ability to analyse the findings that are given that enable us to have contructive "arguments"?

Kassie

xxx

Absolutely Kassie, and that is why I believe we must look at all the evidence and research and make our own decisions right or wrong and have a debate, not just listen to or accept any doctrine that is thrown at us.

 

[Cas]

Everyone sometimes feel the need to justify their decisions and get behind that decision and how they arrived at it but as I have said if you have the courage of your convictions in this case it`s religious importance and relevance to you, this surely becomes the most important justification for your decision.

 

[KheeKhee]

Everyone sometimes feel the need to justify their decisions and get behind that decision and how they arrived at it but as I have said if you have the courage of your convictions in this case it`s religious importance and relevance to you, this surely becomes the most important justification for your decision.

I agree Cas, however those in doubt have a right to ask questions, hopefully see evidence, not just blindly follow.

 

[Cas]

I agree Cas, however those in doubt have a right to ask questions, hopefully see evidence, not just blindly follow.

You said it Khee Khee those in doubt......

 

[NetNiet]

Hello....sorry but I have got to say......"research" can be skewed! In the end, I believe we will always go with what "we believe" if it fits our thinking? Research is great, but we must be able to look behind what researchers "tell us" It is our ability to analyse the findings that are given that enable us to have contructive "arguments"?

Kassie

xxx

I think that a good research is based on facts.
Facts is something totally different than an opinion or what you can think.

*edit* offcourse it can happend that what you think is the same as the facts from a research

 

[Cas]

Trouble is these days research even in universities is funded by the large pharmaceutical companies who have a vested interest in the results.

 

[kassie]

I think that a good research is based on facts.
Facts is something totally different than an opinion or what you can think.

*edit* offcourse it can happend that what you think is the same as the facts from a research

Absolutely.....but opinion (personal or otherwise) is what can determine "your beliefs" hence one should keep an open mind. However, one must look at the findings, and question.......vested interest or not? Yes, facts are different than opinion .... When I did my research, I found this very hard....because.....I truely believed in my research and "thought" everyone else would lol...

Kassie

xxx

 

[Brownie]

It's very difficult to find an objective view on circumcision anywhere because of the religious aspect - I thought this was one of the better ones (although the comments at the bottom are a little like this thread all over again ) I'm just glad I'm never going to be in the position of having to make a decision
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/circumcision-what-does-science-say/

 

[Freya]

maybe it would be an idea to look at research done in USA on American women because 'apparently' most men there get circumcised but many are not for religious reasons (?hygiene, cosmetic, tight foreskin etc).

So, if incidence of cervical cancer is high in USA compared to other countries then maybe it could be said that it has more to do with sexual promiscuity than being uncircumcised.

 

[Cas]

I believe the fashion for circumcision is much influenced by the number of Jewish medical practioners in the US also. I would also wonder at true numbers being recorded even because of medical care not being freely available to all. Somewhere along the line this must have an influence.

 

[Essem]

Figures can always be fudged - especially working in percentages!

 

[NetNiet]

OK I did some research at the internet at medical studies about this.

I was thinking if HPV is the most common reason for cervical cancer, what is the relation from HPV to a circumcisioned man.
In several studies they came to the same conclusion.
So besides the fact that how many partners you.ve sleeping with are more risc to get the HPV virus, what they find out and I thought this was really interesting:
Men who are circumcisioned have 3 times more chance to get rid off the HPV virus than men who are not circumcisioned.

This is the result from one off the studies I looked at:

Study limitations included the relatively small sample and the uncertainty as to the exact dates of infection and clearance, due to the six-month study visit interval. Nevertheless, the authors concluded that "the key factor associated with acquisition of HPV infection of all types … was lifetime number of sex partners, whereas the most important determinant of clearance of any [penile] HPV infection and of clearance of oncogenic HPV infection was circumcision."

Source: http://www.aidsmap.com/Circumcised-HIV-negative-men-more-likely-to-clear-HPV-infection/page/1433282/

 

[Cas]

Sorry still doesn`t make sense, clearance of any oncogenic hpv infection was circumcision but ..... oncogenic occurence is in the female partner infected by male with hpv. Does this mean that men with hpv are circumcised to clear infection? Also does this indicate that circumcised men clear the infection automatically ? very obtuse wording once again. I think rely on the fact first stated, number of sexual partners in lifetime probably with hpv. The researchers have to come up with a conclusion but as they state uncertainty, study limitations .....Anyway lets move on what does everybody think? Everyone can read into stuff just as they want as was previously posted.

 

[Scottochott]

Yes please please move on, but I dread to think what we move on to after circumcision!